[owncloud-devel] Update available via admin interface

jimknopf at gmx.org jimknopf at gmx.org
Mon Nov 16 21:19:50 GMT 2015


Hi Thomas,

don’t worry, I understand that there is more to it than just two people agreeing, but I am hoping for some changes, nontheless.

And that there is some need to act seems obvious to me - while 8.2.1 has reached RC, 8.2 is still not - almost 4 weeks after its release - available in the admin interface. This is not only in stark contrast to the admin interface itself, where it says (as has been noted before) that the dealy is "a few days". It is also contradictory to https://owncloud.org/release-channels/, where it says about the "stable" release channel that it "delivers the latest feature releases ready for home users at minimal risk".

I would gladly try to convince more people here of my case, but not many seem to take an interest, it seems to me … which is kind of unfortunate, because the goal of enabling as many people as possible to regain control over their private data is endangered by making it so hard as it is at the moment to keep my installation up to date and thus as secure as possible.

Regards
Jim




> Am 16.11.2015 um 16:16 schrieb Thomas Ebert <thomas.ebert at te-online.net>:
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
> I hope my text didn’t give the impression the decision was in my hands alone ;-)
> As this is a community project, we need to convince others of this opinion or find a different compromise.
> 
> There is an open issue in the updater repo https://github.com/owncloud/updater/issues/183 <https://github.com/owncloud/updater/issues/183>
> But I miss a repository for issues concerning the general practices and organisational input. Where could this discussion take place? @Frank Karlitschek?
> 
> Thomas
> 
>> On 15 Nov 2015, at 15:45, jimknopf at gmx.org <mailto:jimknopf at gmx.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Thomas,
>> 
>> thank you for the explanation, I agree with you in all respects. Looking forward to some changes :-)
>> 
>> Regards
>> Jim
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 14.11.2015 um 20:09 schrieb Thomas Ebert <thomas.ebert at te-online.net <mailto:thomas.ebert at te-online.net>>:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> 
>>> @Jim Knopf: In an attempt to answer your question directed @all (from my personal point of view!):
>>> 
>>> I think the current practice is based on a (probably outdated) conception of »user-roles«. It seems that there is the role of the tech-savvy users who unquestionable update their ownClouds via command line or manually. And then there are those »endusers« which are at the same time administrators, simply because they don’t have access to a »proper« system administrator (e.g. they are normally not concerned with administration tasks and are hosting their ownCloud on shared hosting without anyone’s personal help.) The updater app seems to be targeted at the latter. 
>>> 
>>> Personally, I agree that this practice is not really helpful for anyone, besides the fact that those imaginary user-roles probably not exist. The only consistent action would be now to make updates instantly available via the updater app after release. For which other reason do we have the different channels? »Real life« tests should be run with non-stable releases. Now »tests« are run by users who do not use the updater app and who are currently playing the role as pre-testers for those who use the app, in which I can see no logic motivation.
>>> 
>>> Concerning the texts in the update app: A few weeks ago, we worked on making the texts more comprehensible and shorter at the same time to deliver only the information that is actually needed. And the quoted »Testing is everything« was removed in the last version. (See https://github.com/owncloud/updater/pull/180 <https://github.com/owncloud/updater/pull/180>). As stated before I agree with you that upon release the testing should be completed. Otherwise you can’t call it a stable release.
>>> 
>>> I am not sure who is actually in charge of »pressing the red button« each time, aka publishing the updates to the official channel that the app uses. Maybe @Frank could help us out with this question? However, this person has to make the decision of the »release date« on some basis, right? So maybe can create a more solid basis for this decision – like proposed: A week after release the release will also be available in the app. Or – as I think it would be suitable – instantly upon release the updater channel gets the new version as well.
>>> 
>>> Thomas
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ––
>>> Thomas Ebert
>>> Interaction Design
>>>>>> thomas.ebert at te-online.net <mailto:thomas.ebert at te-online.net>
>>> www.te-online.net <http://www.te-online.net/>
>>>>>> +49 2553 977324
>>> +49 152 28633423
>>>>>> 
>>>> Am 12.11.2015 um 23:19 schrieb jimknopf at gmx.org <mailto:jimknopf at gmx.org>:
>>>> 
>>>> @Frank: Now I am offered version 8.1.4.2 on all channels except „nightly“.
>>>> 
>>>> @all,
>>>> 
>>>> so far, no one has answered my question, so I want to rephrase it: Why do you think that the admin can not be enabled to update via web interface as soon as the new version is available? I am the admin of my OC installation, and must decide when I can and want to update my installation. I do not understand why there is a delay for the web interface when the update is already released and publicly available. „Testing is everything“ can not be the answer. If you release a new version that is not beta or an RC, then the time for testing is over.
>>>> 
>>>> Then again I want to raise the problem of security - if you release a new version, usually it contains a lot of security fixes. Those are public knowledge as soon as the new sources and the release notes are on the server. This is all well and fine if I update as soon as possible, but your practice forces me over and over again to take to the console. Which I can handle, but then why did you bother to implement the update function in the web interface?
>>>> 
>>>> Besides, „a few days“ has now been „a few weeks“, and if you care to take a look into the OC forums, this issue is raised with almost every update. This is in no way clear or consistend from my point of view. 
>>>> 
>>>> Regards
>>>> Jim Knopf
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Am 12.11.2015 um 22:58 schrieb Jan-Christoph Borchardt <jan at owncloud.com <mailto:jan at owncloud.com>>:
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the updater app it says:
>>>>> »Testing is everything: Therefore updates will be available here within a few days after the announcement.«
>>>>> Can we be more clear there?
>>>>> 
>>>>> In addition I agree, the »few days« should be consistent.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> mark.ziegler at rakekniven.de <mailto:mark.ziegler at rakekniven.de> – Thu., 12. November 2015 17:40
>>>>>> Hello Frank,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> the time from release to availability for integrated updater is  lacking communication.
>>>>>> Time is different each release.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> IMHO you should announce it on e.g. twitter, mailinglist and other channels.
>>>>>> And there should be a default delay from release to auto updater e.g. 2 weeks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There has been conversations in the forums as well regarding update strategy.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Is there an official statement somewhere about the delay?
>>>>>> Would be helpful to answer questions like "why is my ownCloud not  offering latest release" with answers like "please look at your cloud  in about a week. Maybe update will be available at that time...".
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Have a good time.
>>>>>> ownCloud rocks!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Zitat von Frank Karlitschek <frank at owncloud.com <mailto:frank at owncloud.com>>:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 3.1.4 should now be available in the updater. (After a few minutes  > of cache ttl cleanups)
>>>>>>> Please let me know if something is not working.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Frank
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Nov 12, 2015, at 13:19, Joas Schilling  >> <nickvergessen at owncloud.com <mailto:nickvergessen at owncloud.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi Jim,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> notified the people in charge directly, hopefully it will get resolved soon.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> cheers joas
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Am 10.11.2015 um 19:30 schrieb jimknopf at gmx.org <mailto:jimknopf at gmx.org>:
>>>>>>>>> Hello everybody,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I would like to raise a question/a requirement regarding the  >>> update of OC via admin panel and propose to make updates here  >>> available as soon as they are published on owncloud.org <http://owncloud.org/>.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The reasons: In v8.1.3 (the one I am using), I have four different  >>> types of update to choose from (produktion, stable, beta and  >>> nightly), but neither offers me an update to 8.1.4 or 8.2 (as of  >>> this writing).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I see no reason and indeed do not understand why I am forced to do  >>> a manual update. And I am forced to do this, because otherwise, my  >>> OC instance would be exposed to many security bugs that are  >>> publicly known as soon as a new release is available on the website.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>> Jim Knopf
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Devel mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Devel at owncloud.org <mailto:Devel at owncloud.org>
>>>>>>>>> mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel <http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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