[owncloud-devel] Bug#815963: Warn users about unsupported upgrade path

Jos Poortvliet jospoortvliet at gmail.com
Mon Feb 29 03:01:34 GMT 2016


On Sunday, February 28, 2016 10:15:48 AM AMT Lukas Reschke wrote:
> I stand with my comments. If some downstream people believe they know it
> better than upstream they are illusional and taking user data at risk.
> 
> If this doesn't work with the way they distribute packages they should not
> distribute it OR add extensive testing sets to core to prove that updates
> will work.
> 
> And of course users have to follow our update processes. That's why we have
> code in place that enforces it. If they remove that then they simply are
> not using ownCloud but a fork which should be marked as such. Our code
> integrity check will detect such situations.
> 
> And yes, this is a longterm goal that we're aiming at and there are tickets
> for it. What they do is taking user data at risk AND outsourcing support to
> us in case it breaks. An unacceptable move from my PoV.
> 
> Instead of randomly deciding that this works downstream should have filed
> an issue and worked with us to the goal to support this in future. Note
> that the version that Debian has in stable also is missing quite a few bug
> fixes leading to data loss. My blog post recently highlighted one.
> 
> Seriously. This whole "we randomly backport patches that we consider
> critical" thing is just not suited for fast evolving web apps like ownCloud.

Well, I am with Klaas in the sense that ownCloud isn't the center of the universe - many people administer a server and would like to not have to worry about updates and Debian tries to offer that.

That is currently simply not possible with our software, we believe, and we're trying to make it possible, but it seams the Debian team tries to do that starting with 7.0. Now clearly you don't think they can make that work reliably, but we can say that a bit nicer, we share a common goal here.

Cheers,
Jos

> - Lukas
> 
> On Sun, 28 Feb 2016 at 11:00, Klaas Freitag <freitag at owncloud.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 27.02.2016 15:49, Lukas Reschke wrote:
> > > This is super dangerous stuff from Debian and I*HIGHLY*  would advise
> > > anybody from NOT using distribution packages for ownCloud.
> > >
> > > Highly irresponsible from them to risk user data like that. Honestly, the
> > > maintainer should know better.
> >
> > Sorry, but this is over the top. Of course debians way of patching this
> > is wrong, but have you ever thought about why they do it?
> >
> > It is completely naive to think that users (using distro packages or
> > not) will always follow the upgrade path ownClouds core devs think is
> > good. ownCloud isn't the center of the world for everybody.
> >
> > One could easily argue that ownCloud is badly architected if it is not
> > able to detect which version it is updating from and to which it updates
> > to. From that information it could be able to build a list of actions to
> > perform. Other systems manage to do that. If that is too hard with the
> > underlying technology we are using that is a different thing, but in
> > means a reason for this bashing comments. That is not helping anybody.
> >
> > We should spend our energy to improve things rather than pointing to
> > each other. In FOSS we're all in the same boat.
> >
> > regards,
> > Klaas
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Devel mailing list
> > Devel at owncloud.org
> > http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
> >
> 

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