[owncloud-devel] Bug#815963: Warn users about unsupported upgrade path

Morris Jobke morris at owncloud.com
Mon Feb 29 07:06:18 GMT 2016


Hi,

we officially support each version at least 18 months. I think this is a quite long time for a web app. I’m also a bit worried about all of this. I guess we should start an active discussion with the Debian maintainer to explain our fears and they could then explain why they have chosen this way of handling the upgrades. Hopefully we could provide a way that everybody is fine with.

Morris


> Am 28.02.2016 um 12:20 schrieb tflidd <tflidd at aspekte.net>:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I really appreciate the efforts you put in the improvement of the
> upgrade process and the new integrity check will hopefully reduce
> problems with code of different versions. Just bypassing checks, which
> were put in place for a reason, is not a very good idea.
> 
> Other web applications went the way to provide long term releases
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_support), perhaps an idea for
> owncloud? I think, there are a lot of people who like owncloud but who
> are not so enthusiast that they need every new feature. They were happy
> with owncloud 7.0, and now as it reaches EOL they need to upgrade.
> Unfortunately, it's not one, it's a series of upgrades.
> 
> This probably requires a different planning and all update-routines
> would have to be adopted.
> 
> tflidd
> 
> 
> 
> Am 28.02.2016 um 11:43 schrieb Lukas Reschke:
>> See also https://github.com/owncloud/core/issues/22313 and
>> https://github.com/owncloud/core/issues/22310
>> 
>> We're spending significant time in core on already fixed bugs. I don't
>> consider this really helpful for us nor our users. This is taking user
>> data at risk by intention.
>> 
>> - Lukas
>> On Sun, 28 Feb 2016 at 11:15, Lukas Reschke <lukas at statuscode.ch
>> <mailto:lukas at statuscode.ch>> wrote:
>> 
>>    I stand with my comments. If some downstream people believe they
>>    know it better than upstream they are illusional and taking user
>>    data at risk. If this doesn't work with the way they distribute
>>    packages they should not distribute it OR add extensive testing
>>    sets to core to prove that updates will work. And of course users
>>    have to follow our update processes. That's why we have code in
>>    place that enforces it. If they remove that then they simply are
>>    not using ownCloud but a fork which should be marked as such. Our
>>    code integrity check will detect such situations. And yes, this is
>>    a longterm goal that we're aiming at and there are tickets for it.
>>    What they do is taking user data at risk AND outsourcing support
>>    to us in case it breaks. An unacceptable move from my PoV. Instead
>>    of randomly deciding that this works downstream should have filed
>>    an issue and worked with us to the goal to support this in future.
>>    Note that the version that Debian has in stable also is missing
>>    quite a few bug fixes leading to data loss. My blog post recently
>>    highlighted one. Seriously. This whole "we randomly backport
>>    patches that we consider critical" thing is just not suited for
>>    fast evolving web apps like ownCloud.
>>    - Lukas
>> 
>>    On Sun, 28 Feb 2016 at 11:00, Klaas Freitag <freitag at owncloud.com
>>    <mailto:freitag at owncloud.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>        On 27.02.2016 15:49, Lukas Reschke wrote:
>>> This is super dangerous stuff from Debian and I*HIGHLY* 
>>        would advise
>>> anybody from NOT using distribution packages for ownCloud.
>>> 
>>> Highly irresponsible from them to risk user data like that.
>>        Honestly, the
>>> maintainer should know better.
>> 
>>        Sorry, but this is over the top. Of course debians way of
>>        patching this
>>        is wrong, but have you ever thought about why they do it?
>> 
>>        It is completely naive to think that users (using distro
>>        packages or
>>        not) will always follow the upgrade path ownClouds core devs
>>        think is
>>        good. ownCloud isn't the center of the world for everybody.
>> 
>>        One could easily argue that ownCloud is badly architected if
>>        it is not
>>        able to detect which version it is updating from and to which
>>        it updates
>>        to. From that information it could be able to build a list of
>>        actions to
>>        perform. Other systems manage to do that. If that is too hard
>>        with the
>>        underlying technology we are using that is a different thing,
>>        but in
>>        means a reason for this bashing comments. That is not helping
>>        anybody.
>> 
>>        We should spend our energy to improve things rather than
>>        pointing to
>>        each other. In FOSS we're all in the same boat.
>> 
>>        regards,
>>        Klaas
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
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